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This was a live internet chat that
took place Oct 1, 2003, run by Horror Writers of How does an author go from unknown to landing a six-figure, three-book deal? Well, if you're Joe Konrath, author of WHISKEY SOUR, all you need to do is: 1. spend a decade writing nine novels you can't sell Was he lucky? Luck ain't nothing but persistence meeting opportunity,
Junior. Nick Welcome to the HWA chat. Tonight we have with us Joe Konrath, who landed a six-figure deal with Hyperion for a mystery series. Joe Konrath Don't tell the IRS. Nick However, before that, he was the world's biggest loser. A decade of trying. Four hundred and fifteen rejections. Nine unsold novels. Joe Konrath Wow. I suck. Nick So he's a testament to something or other, and tonight we'll find out what. I'll ask Joe questions for about 20 minutes, then we'll open the floor to questions. Nick So Joe. Tell us a bit about the last decade. Whey did you keep writing novels? Joe Konrath When I graduated college in 1992, I had a choice--go into my field (TV production), or write a book. I chose TV. But in 1992, we had a major recession going on. I competed for entry level positions against longtime employees who had been laid off. Very tough to find work. So I decided to write a novel. I'd done many, many short stories. Never tried to publish them. But a novel seemed like the logical progression. So I worked as a waiter four nights a week. For the other three, I wrote. Finished my first book in about 3 months. Sent it to 20 agents--sample chapters and a standard query. Got an agent immediately. He was a big shot, had a lot of big authors. I visited NY, he bought me dinner. Told me how rich I was going to be. Nick But couldn't sell the book? Joe Konrath In 18 months, he sent the book to two publishers. Two. So, I parted with Mr. Big Shot. Figured "It was easy to get him, I'll just get someone else." Well... no one else wanted me. Nick How many agents did you try? Joe Konrath I queried every agent, and then every editor. Nick "Every"? Wow! Joe Konrath About 40 agents, 25 publishers. Just the 'big' ones. So, since no one was biting, I wrote another book. Submitted to another 40 and 25. Then, another. And another. Got lots of form letter rejections. But no requests to read the books. Nick So, what was going on in your life? Would you tell people that you were a writer? Did your family weep that you blew your college education on serving food? Joe Konrath I spent my days writing, my nights waiting on tables. It killed my mom. She was supportive, but she wanted more for me. I also got married during those years. Huge support, my wife. Couldn't have done it without her. Nick So you were writing all these books. Did you ever run afoul anyone who would guarantee to publish it in exchange for some money? Were you ever tempted by a vanity press, in other words? Joe Konrath Oh, sure. Lots of offers. Agents sell rejections to unscrupulous folks. Vanity presses and pay agents. I had several contracts mailed to me. But I always researched them, and if they wanted money, see ya. After the fifth book, I got smart. Nick Ah, what happened then? Joe Konrath 450,000 words, none published, so I took a different approach. I was writing mysteries. Hardboiled stuff. The market wasn't about that in '96. So I switched genres and wrote a techno thriller. I thought up a high concept hook. Researched like crazy. Wrote according to the market, rather than according to my own personal fancy. Nick So you switched genres half a million words in. How did you keep motivated? Joe Konrath The key was to treat publishing like a business rather than a fantasy. It is, after all, a way to make money. I was hoping someone would publish me. Wrong attitude. I needed to write something that people would fight over. So I did. Writers spend too much time catering to their own egos. After 300 rejections, I had no ego left. So I approached it like a business. Nick So the rejections actually helped you? Joe Konrath Yes, the rejections helped me. Actually, a specific agent helped me. Though I didn't know it at the time. Nick Did you do anything with them? Pin them up? What did that agent say or do? Joe Konrath I have a rejection book. A four inch binder. It's crammed full to bursting. This agent called me up. Read my stuff. And asked me, "What the hell are you doing?" "What do you mean?" I asked. "This stuff you write, it's unmarketable. It meanders, it's self important. It follows no structure or form." I asked him, "So why did you call me up, if you hated it?" He told me, "Because you have talent. If you apply yourself, and write what's being sold, rather than write whatever is in your head, then you can sell something." When he told me this, I wasn't mature enough to handle it. Nick In the HWA, 90% of the people who would have gotten that phone call...ah, you anticipated my question. Most people would curse or never write again. Joe Konrath I thought I knew better then him at the time. I was a genius. He was a fool for not recognizing that. I was wrong, of course. Nick What matured you. What made you grow up? Joe Konrath When I had a baby, I decided to rethink things. Was writing a hobby? A dream? Or was it something I could do for a living? So I studied the market, knuckled down, and wrote a 'big book." I had to. It was taking up too much of my time. Too much of my life, to be just a hobby. I pulled a Robin Cook. Cook read 100 bestsellers before writing Coma. So when I finally sat down to write, I had a much better grasp of what makes a good novel. Then, when I finished the book, I went out with it in a different way. Instead of the standard "query letter plus the first three chapters" I put together a 4 page package: Page 1-A one paragraph excerpt from a juicy part of the novel. Nothing else. No SASE. No return address. I sent this package to 120 agents on a Thursday. On the following Tuesday, I had five agents demanding the book. I picked one I liked. Nick And if I'm counting books correctly, this one didn't sell either... Joe Konrath Nope, I didn't sell that book. Or the one after. Or the one after--with my third book with my current agent, she flat out refused to rep it. She hated it. So, I went back to mysteries. I examined the market. What sells? Why? What do all successful authors have in common? I found a niche and filled it and wrote a mystery. Jane Dystel (my agent) loved the new book. She went out big (as she did with the others). Big means that she talks the book up at lunches for a few weeks. To editors. Then the book goes out to 15 at once, and puts a time limit on it. They get a week to decide. With my first two books with her, I had some near misses. With the last one, the book went up for auction. Hyperion offered a hard/soft deal. They're also sending me on an 8 city tour. Nick So, after a decade of work and a million unsold words, how many people say "Wow, you're so lucky!" when they hear your story? Joe Konrath No one. My story makes people feel better about themselves. If a schmo like me can do it, so can they. And they can. Nick_Kaufm Series are enormously successful in mystery. When you first wrote "Whiskey Sour," had you envisioned it as the first in a recurring character series? Joe Konrath Yes. All successful series have common denominators: Female hero, recognizable title, recurring cast of supporting characters, local color, first person narrator, protagonist problems that compete with story problems. Nick You decided to do what sells when you wrote your techno thriller. It didn't sell. Nor did the books you wrote after it. Was selling just a matter of finally timing the market, or did something of yourself push the book. One thing that comes to mind is the humor of the Jack Daniels books, for example. Joe Konrath My techno thrillers didn't sell because they slipped through the genre cracks. They had a sense of humor, and that threw editors for a loop. When I did my third book, I cut out the humor, and my agent hated it. In mystery, humor is more acceptable. Janet Evanovich, Dave Barry, Tim Cockey, Spenser, Larry Block... I believe I got the Hyperion deal, because the editor called me on the phone and we talked for an hour. I made her laugh like hell. jnassise Why a female hero? I can think of any number of series with male heroes and third person narratives... Joe Konrath Male heroes are a tougher sell in today's market. Women buy 80% of all mysteries. They buy women authors, women protagonists. It's no coincidence I'm being called "JA Konrath" on my cover. Nick So you found a niche that played to a pre-existing strength, the humor? Joe Konrath Succinct way to put it. Yes. APepper You say you sat down and decided to write a book publishers would fight over. How does one sit down and just decide, hey I'm going to write a BIG book, and then pull it off? Joe Konrath Two things. First, write five 'shelf novels' that don't sell. All of that wasted time goes a long way towards motivating you to be better. Second, read a lot. I have 4000 books in my library. Drives my wife nuts. All the walls are shelves. Remember that writing is a craft, and it can be learned. You can dissect a bestseller. Then use the formula with your spin on it. If you're good enough to trick the reader into thinking it's not formula, and you have a good book. But every book is formulaic. Nick There seems to be a hard limit to that though. Anne Rice spawned the "novel from the vampire's POV" but when one mass market publisher puts out an 80% vampire list, they don't all make the best seller list. What are the elements of timing, or is that where the five shelf novels come in? Keep writing and writing and wait till you click? Joe Konrath Timing depends on when you reach the realization that this is a job, not a lottery. Once you're ready to be in it for the long haul and do whatever needs to be done to get published, you'll get published. Remove your ego. Remove your expectations. Study the market. Fit yourself into it jnassise Money question Joe - my deal with S&S split my advance into three payments - 1/3 with acceptance, 1/3 with novel, 1/3 with pub - Did Hyperion do the same for your second novel in the deal? Joe Konrath Sort of-- mine got broken up into about 8 pieces, with some parts due on acceptance of the outlines... that messed me up! jnassise Yeah - me too. Had never written an outline before that. Joe Konrath Me neither. I had an outline for book 2 due in August. I'm a fast writer; about 20 pages a day. So I figured an outline would be easy. It kicked my ass! I NEVER do outlines so it took longer than I thought. I put my heart into it, showed it to my agent. She loved it. "The best outline I ever read," she says. So I give it to my editor. HATES IT! "Can I fix it?" I ask. Nope. She wants something entirely new. With one week until the due date. So I spend a week without sleep, and give her what she wants. My wife asked, "Aren't you mad?" Mad? Why? I don't have an ego left, remember? I'm getting paid to do what I love. Why be mad? I think of it like this: I have a lump of clay. I make an ashtray out of it. My editor says, "I don't want an ashtray, I want a bowl." No problem. I can make a bowl, too. It won't be an ashtray, but it all comes from the same place. Me. Nick Barring having children, what do you recommend new, and frustrated writers do to eliminate their egos? Joe Konrath Good question. First of all, never listen to praise. Praise can't help you improve. All it does is lull you into complacency. Second, think of this as a job, rather than as a way to fulfill your dreams. Third, actively seek criticism. By criticism, I mean asking people, "What doesn't work? And why?" It's tough to self edit. Find other writers, push your work on them. Go to conferences, meet industry pros. Get advice. Read a lot. And get over yourself. We aren't curing cancer here. We're entertainers. Lighten up, have fun, work hard, never give up. Nick You're obviously a hustler, as can be seen by the way you got the agent with the four-page package. In 2003, not 1993, there are tons of print on demand places that say "We'll print your book, you hustle it, and make it big like Walt Whitman did!" What do you think of that sort of expenditure of energy? Joe Konrath In 2003, I wouldn't recommend it. Hyperion is touring me, but I still expect to sell my book myself, one at a time. After 12 years of broken promises and empty dreams, my career is in my hands. I won't let the publisher decide it for me. But the problem with POD is the selling venues. Bookstores rarely carry self published books. Nick_Kaufm Surely the strength of Hyperion behind you is an asset, though? Joe Konrath Oh, sure! I'm thrilled Hyperion is behind me. They open up avenues I couldn't. But I won't rely on them completely. I need to rely on myself. With POD, you have too many venues that are closed. No bookstores. No reviews. No way to get the books into the hands of the public. When WHISKEY SOUR is released, I'm going to contact 5000 libraries. Tell them they can get it through major distributors like Ingram and Baker & Taylor. I just found out I'm going to be in Target, K-Mart, and Wal-Mart. Couldn't do that through POD. The best thing new writers can do is fine tune their craft, find a great hook, and write something that editors and agents will fight over. Hard? Sure. But if you spend a million words on it, I bet you can do the same thing. Nick What's the horror formula? You told us the mystery formula. Joe Konrath I love horror! The formula is actually simple: Introduce hero, introduce supernatural element, and then have supernatural element threaten hero. Scares and suspense come from anticipation, because we 'know' the hero is going to get it. We fear bad things happening to good people. mwest What are the publishers looking for in your outline? Joe Konrath Each chapter=one paragraph, detailing all of the action and conflict. So my outline was about 40 pages for a 70,000 word book. Write it in present tense. "Jack goes to the store, discovers the body." Use dialog sparingly. mwest So, no prose, just detail. Got it. Joe Konrath Use the essence, the bare bones, of detail. But NEVER use an outline as a selling tool. Use the book as the selling tool, plus an ultra brief synopsis, like back jacket copy. One page. One paragraph. A few sentences is best. Pick up a bestselling paperback, and read the back. That's how you should approach agents mwest I created a cover, author bio, etc. I also had reviews from actual readers from London, Australia, Canada, and the US of A. That's when I started to get bites. Joe Konrath Smart way to do it. Treat yourself like a pro, and the industry will treat you like a pro. Treat yourself like an amateur, and make room in your rejection book. |
